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	<title>Comments on: Break Point</title>
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	<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/</link>
	<description>Energy and Economics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:33:48 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: bob will</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3859</link>
		<dc:creator>bob will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 07:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3859</guid>
		<description>Short-term:  $6/gal. gasoline will encourage car-pooling--even in California; 4 people per car = $1.50/gal gas.  $10/gal. gasoline = only $2.50/gal. gas.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Long-term: probably by 2040 at the latest:  A massive perpetual oil glut will occur, when the century-old idea that oil is created by inner earth molten core forces--rather than dead dinosaurs and rotted vegitation--proves correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Short-term:  $6/gal. gasoline will encourage car-pooling&#8211;even in California; 4 people per car = $1.50/gal gas.  $10/gal. gasoline = only $2.50/gal. gas.</p>
<p>Long-term: probably by 2040 at the latest:  A massive perpetual oil glut will occur, when the century-old idea that oil is created by inner earth molten core forces&#8211;rather than dead dinosaurs and rotted vegitation&#8211;proves correct.</p>
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		<title>By: steve_from_virginia</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3839</link>
		<dc:creator>steve_from_virginia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3839</guid>
		<description>Your&#039;s is as good a schedule as any. Not much time to &#039;batten down the hatches&#039;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Regarding the petro- market: one thing I don&#039;t see much written about is the split within OPEC between &#039;hawks&#039; who want higher prices an any cost and &#039;doves&#039;  who don&#039;t want to destroy the commercial economy of consuming nations with prices at &#039;whatever level&#039;. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Iran, Libya, Russia and Venezuela would fall into the hawk category. Saudia, Kuwait, would be considered doves. Brazil, the African producers, Canamex and perhaps Iraq straddle the fence.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The hawks have a lot of power in the market. There is no reason why OPEC producers didn&#039;t sell forwards to each other in 2008 churn the market upward. (There is no reason why refiners didn&#039;t sell shipments to each other in order to pump the spot market and support futures!)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Refineres pumping the market this way would explain the &#039;increase in inventories&#039; that seems at times more phantom than real. Producers pumping the futures market would create a velocity bubble, which seems to be forming again, right now. The question is whether the Saudis can modeerate the market power of the hawks by pumping more oil from their spare capacity. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Which leads to the next issue; does Saudi Arabia have enough spare capacity to effect the pricing curve? Jeff Brown discusses the prospects on this program with Jim Puplava:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-1024-1.mp3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-1...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Mr. Brown describes Saidia&#039;s production as declining regardless of price/investment inputs post- 2005. The Saudi&#039;s exhibit &quot;the fastest rate of consumption&quot; of all the exporters, which amplifies depletion. The spare capacity the Saudis would claim in 2006 would be shrunken in 2009 as a result of increased Saudi domestic consumption over the intervening period.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Actually, it&#039;s my opinion it&#039;s more likely than not ... that Saudi Arabia peaked in 2005 ...&quot; says Jeff Brown.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What this means is the Saudis can claim to be supportive of OECD economies while being structually unable to exercise their claim. At some point, of course, the producer will decide to use all remaining production to support domestic use, only. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;More info @ Financial Sense Newshour:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Next six months will be intereting ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your&#39;s is as good a schedule as any. Not much time to &#39;batten down the hatches&#39;.</p>
<p>Regarding the petro- market: one thing I don&#39;t see much written about is the split within OPEC between &#39;hawks&#39; who want higher prices an any cost and &#39;doves&#39;  who don&#39;t want to destroy the commercial economy of consuming nations with prices at &#39;whatever level&#39;. </p>
<p>Iran, Libya, Russia and Venezuela would fall into the hawk category. Saudia, Kuwait, would be considered doves. Brazil, the African producers, Canamex and perhaps Iraq straddle the fence.</p>
<p>The hawks have a lot of power in the market. There is no reason why OPEC producers didn&#39;t sell forwards to each other in 2008 churn the market upward. (There is no reason why refiners didn&#39;t sell shipments to each other in order to pump the spot market and support futures!)</p>
<p>Refineres pumping the market this way would explain the &#39;increase in inventories&#39; that seems at times more phantom than real. Producers pumping the futures market would create a velocity bubble, which seems to be forming again, right now. The question is whether the Saudis can modeerate the market power of the hawks by pumping more oil from their spare capacity. </p>
<p>Which leads to the next issue; does Saudi Arabia have enough spare capacity to effect the pricing curve? Jeff Brown discusses the prospects on this program with Jim Puplava:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-1024-1.mp3" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-1.." rel="nofollow">http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-1..</a>.</p>
<p>Mr. Brown describes Saidia&#39;s production as declining regardless of price/investment inputs post- 2005. The Saudi&#39;s exhibit &#8220;the fastest rate of consumption&#8221; of all the exporters, which amplifies depletion. The spare capacity the Saudis would claim in 2006 would be shrunken in 2009 as a result of increased Saudi domestic consumption over the intervening period.</p>
<p>&#8220;Actually, it&#39;s my opinion it&#39;s more likely than not &#8230; that Saudi Arabia peaked in 2005 &#8230;&#8221; says Jeff Brown.</p>
<p>What this means is the Saudis can claim to be supportive of OECD economies while being structually unable to exercise their claim. At some point, of course, the producer will decide to use all remaining production to support domestic use, only. </p>
<p>More info @ Financial Sense Newshour:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html</a></p>
<p>Next six months will be intereting &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: moegamble</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3838</link>
		<dc:creator>moegamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3838</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the U.S. as a whole is capable of transition. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think the first step of transition will occur through the transfer of resources to China and India for higher-utility uses. The first step of transition, in essence, is the fading away of the non-transitioning U.S.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think that falling rents and fading consumerism will mean Americans can pay a higher percentage of GDP for oil, though. And if we can ever get Americans onto healthy food and off their addiction to high-tech health care, we can bid an even higher percentage of GDP for oil. I mean, who would ever have thought that we&#039;d be on the verge of spending 20% of GDP simply to ennable high fructose corn syrup addiction?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t think the U.S. as a whole is capable of transition. </p>
<p>I think the first step of transition will occur through the transfer of resources to China and India for higher-utility uses. The first step of transition, in essence, is the fading away of the non-transitioning U.S.</p>
<p>I think that falling rents and fading consumerism will mean Americans can pay a higher percentage of GDP for oil, though. And if we can ever get Americans onto healthy food and off their addiction to high-tech health care, we can bid an even higher percentage of GDP for oil. I mean, who would ever have thought that we&#39;d be on the verge of spending 20% of GDP simply to ennable high fructose corn syrup addiction?</p>
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		<title>By: gregor.us</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3832</link>
		<dc:creator>gregor.us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3832</guid>
		<description>The latest data I&#039;ve seen has CA at around 34 million population and 32 million total registered vehicles. Alot of people get hung up on the amount of &quot;cars.&quot; I dont, because imo the total inventory of vehicles is a testament to our fossil fuel powered transport system as all trucks, police cars, utility vehicles, buses etc count as our mode of overall transport.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;G</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The latest data I&#39;ve seen has CA at around 34 million population and 32 million total registered vehicles. Alot of people get hung up on the amount of &#8220;cars.&#8221; I dont, because imo the total inventory of vehicles is a testament to our fossil fuel powered transport system as all trucks, police cars, utility vehicles, buses etc count as our mode of overall transport.</p>
<p>G</p>
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		<title>By: gregor.us</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3833</link>
		<dc:creator>gregor.us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3833</guid>
		<description>Thanks Goman. It&#039;s not an assumption so much, on my part. The population of the US is 300 million and the national inventory of vehicles is roughly at 300 million. In CA the population is somewhere between 30 and 36 million and the inventory of registered vehicles is around 32 million.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Goman. It&#39;s not an assumption so much, on my part. The population of the US is 300 million and the national inventory of vehicles is roughly at 300 million. In CA the population is somewhere between 30 and 36 million and the inventory of registered vehicles is around 32 million.</p>
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		<title>By: gregor.us</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3830</link>
		<dc:creator>gregor.us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3830</guid>
		<description>Looks like they are not comfortable with oil above 80 down at the futures exhanges. My best guess is that this asset-reflationary thrust takes us into May/June 2010. And then we&#039;ll do a repeat of the Summer 2008 crash in both the real economy and the markets.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;G</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like they are not comfortable with oil above 80 down at the futures exhanges. My best guess is that this asset-reflationary thrust takes us into May/June 2010. And then we&#39;ll do a repeat of the Summer 2008 crash in both the real economy and the markets.</p>
<p>G</p>
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		<title>By: gregor.us</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3829</link>
		<dc:creator>gregor.us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3829</guid>
		<description>The only person at ASPO to really address the marginal utility of oil in Asia vs the same in the developed OECD was Chris Skrebowski. I wonder that he has quantified this. I wrote about this issue thematically in The Restructuring of Global Energy Demand. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Transition itself is a fascinating issue and so far I&#039;m not really seeing that that US is making the move. True, large systems change most effectively at the margins, and not necessarily b/c of a monolithic government policy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just imagine if we spent all the current war expenditure on Rail. I wish that were the case, but as you know, the current spend is a paltry 12-15B&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;G</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only person at ASPO to really address the marginal utility of oil in Asia vs the same in the developed OECD was Chris Skrebowski. I wonder that he has quantified this. I wrote about this issue thematically in The Restructuring of Global Energy Demand. </p>
<p>Transition itself is a fascinating issue and so far I&#39;m not really seeing that that US is making the move. True, large systems change most effectively at the margins, and not necessarily b/c of a monolithic government policy.</p>
<p>Just imagine if we spent all the current war expenditure on Rail. I wish that were the case, but as you know, the current spend is a paltry 12-15B</p>
<p>G</p>
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		<title>By: gregor.us</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3828</link>
		<dc:creator>gregor.us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3828</guid>
		<description>Hi Cam. Yes, I believe that at around 80 dollar oil at current consumption rates and at current GDP (which is lower now of course) that aggregate US spending on oil reaches 4.00%. Roughly. So, yes--Consumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cam. Yes, I believe that at around 80 dollar oil at current consumption rates and at current GDP (which is lower now of course) that aggregate US spending on oil reaches 4.00%. Roughly. So, yes&#8211;Consumption.</p>
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		<title>By: gregor.us</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3827</link>
		<dc:creator>gregor.us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3827</guid>
		<description>Thanks Brian. The energy position of the UK is indeed concerning. There is some indication that the years of oil extraction from the North Sea provided enough capital to build some nuclear. However, I&#039;m afraid all of the EU is largely still dependent on Russia for NG, and will be so for some time. Calfiornia is in a similar position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Brian. The energy position of the UK is indeed concerning. There is some indication that the years of oil extraction from the North Sea provided enough capital to build some nuclear. However, I&#39;m afraid all of the EU is largely still dependent on Russia for NG, and will be so for some time. Calfiornia is in a similar position.</p>
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		<title>By: cougar_w</title>
		<link>http://gregor.us/california/break-point/comment-page-1/#comment-3821</link>
		<dc:creator>cougar_w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregor.us/?p=2221#comment-3821</guid>
		<description>It takes 2 hours each way, and I really enjoy it. I have a wife to manage the kids. Spending all my time with the kids is not my job; my job is my job, and not blowing up the planet before I&#039;m done with it is my responsibility to my kids. Of course, someone else will blow it up and make money in the process, so it&#039;s an empty gesture on my part. But I still do it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I was not saying that everyone should build a bike. I realize that is out of reach. I was saying that having a bike means the price of oil might not seem like an issue, and I certainly don&#039;t buy gas. Then I noted that the price and availability of oil impacts my ability to build a bike, even to have the raw materials at all, and being a production builder (instead of a product consumer) I&#039;m very aware of this. Meaning, there is no escape even for builders. But clearly, I&#039;m off the bottom of the chart in terms of my yearly carbon footprint, at least. And that counts for something. Or maybe not. Probably not, actually.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;cheers,&lt;br&gt;cougar</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It takes 2 hours each way, and I really enjoy it. I have a wife to manage the kids. Spending all my time with the kids is not my job; my job is my job, and not blowing up the planet before I&#39;m done with it is my responsibility to my kids. Of course, someone else will blow it up and make money in the process, so it&#39;s an empty gesture on my part. But I still do it.</p>
<p>I was not saying that everyone should build a bike. I realize that is out of reach. I was saying that having a bike means the price of oil might not seem like an issue, and I certainly don&#39;t buy gas. Then I noted that the price and availability of oil impacts my ability to build a bike, even to have the raw materials at all, and being a production builder (instead of a product consumer) I&#39;m very aware of this. Meaning, there is no escape even for builders. But clearly, I&#39;m off the bottom of the chart in terms of my yearly carbon footprint, at least. And that counts for something. Or maybe not. Probably not, actually.</p>
<p>cheers,<br />cougar</p>
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