Simple Takes on Jobs, Economy, Stocks, and Oil

1. The peak in US jobless claims will be shown to occur between 01 NOV 2008 and 01 MAR 2009. This four month period will reveal both a spike in jobless claims and then a recoiling from that spike as jobless claims start to seriously diminish as we head into Summer 2009.

2. The business cycle trough in the US, ironically, was probably set to do a slower motion advance well into next year. However, my heretical idea today is that the credit crunch and stock market crash accelerated the business cycle. So now instead of a slower trajectory into a trough in early Q3 2009, I see a business cycle trough now in late Q1 2009.

3. The stock market. Well, the stock market is going to be confused several times, over the next 6 months. At the moment, I believe it sees the jobs trough which is being put in right now, and, is starting to see the business cycle trough next March. However, next year, the stock market is going to realize it needs to price in a slower recovery.

4. There is risk that oil re-tests its old high in late 2009. This risk would be zero had oil maintained itself above 80.00. The trip to 40.00 destroys actual supply but more important it damages psychology in the industry. Just watch as global oil producers refuse to spend one penny to increase supply next year. As it stands, oil will return to 80.00 at minimum in 2009.

Try not to laugh at the globally coordinated fiscal stimulus. It’s accurate to use the word gargantuan, to describe the scale of everything that’s been announced. Also, regardless of one’s views about 2009, we also need to price in macro outlook volatility. Government intervention kicks streams out of their beds, and gets them running in different directions. For example: You could wake up one day and realize that all that excess PV that is in oversupply is being quickly sucked up by global governments, to do solar projects. Same too with SPR fills on oil, and metals and fertilizer stockpiling.

Final thought: economic events are both structural and psychological. The credit crunch was both, and, created its own structural mess. But there is still a psychological component. Economics is a social science. What’s at issue is human behavior, not foot-pounds of pressure through pipes. By definition, reflation must eventually result in velocity or there has been no reflation. Once you get that velocity, it is reinforcing. Oil was a very important medium for capital to travel around the world. Low oil prices are just another condition of low velocity.

I am sticking with my view that the FED and global governments will keep reflating until they get strong signals they have succeeded. But, by then, they will have done too much. That’s the key dynamic. They will just keep upping the ante until they get feedback. Which means that they are fated to go too far. Regardless of how one sees the battle between Deflation and Inflation, one simply has to capitulate to the fact that policy makers are now all-in, and will keep doubling down on their reflationary bet until they get returns they like, or lose it all.

-Gregor

  • Great post Greg, you've hit the four most important commodity we need and too bad, we're starting to loose each one of them one by one. Lot's of people are doing well, right now can't do anything but to save, wait and be conservative.
  • gregor.us
    Cheers. Reading over this post, I think I did "pretty OK" in calling the 6 months ahead. My main emphasis here was the idea that global govts and central banks would keep pressing the reflationary pedal to the metal until they got a response. Certainly has been the case.

    Best,

    G
  • GloomBoom
    I agree that the central banks will overdo it. They always do and then there is inflation to pay. I guess the politicians don't see any other way out. Check out gloomboom.com
  • Robert Dobb
    why would there be, as we speak, masses of tankers in use as floating storage for crude?... could there be a GLUT?

    if someone wants to make a lot of money, and i mean ALOT,.... devise a way to turn container ships into tankers.
  • Robert Dobb
    storage tankers that is.
  • geckoman
    Gregor I think this is actually an optimistic outlook. The negative feedback loop is just getting going. While jobs may trogh as you say within the next 6 months there is no job recovery to be had. Consumerism is dead as it is now a state of mind to be frugal. Deflation is here and the force is stronger than any amount of money world governments can throw at it.

    While there may be a never ending pot of money to throw at the problems, 8 trillion and counting with no results, there is no free lunch. Many see hyper-inflation at the end of this rainbow and that's possible. We will have our depression one way or the other.
  • gregor.us
    I know my outlook sounds optimistic, but I'm not sure that it is. The notion that global govts will hurl ten tons of stuff at the problem is scary as well.

    I think it's important to remember that the losses are already substantial. As for consumerism being dead, well, I am sure that is true in one sense, but, the market can come up with ways to help people be frugal. Besides, if people spent more time making stuff instead of selling it, that would be a good thing. What people would find is that they would simply spend money on other stuff. So, we can close lots of restaurants but sell a bunch of cooking utensils. Behind the consumerist society was alot of stagnant wage growth and alot of people who could not afford to buy anything at all.

    I've seen these "big trend changes" before. They tend to morph and not become what everyone agrees they'll become. The New Frugality as been too quickly embraced as a meme. I am sure we will indeed get something along those lines, but then, it will morph.

    G
  • geckoman
    I will keep an open mind. Thanks for your thoughts..I am sucked in a vortex of negativity!
  • MW
    I think you mean "peak" in jobless claims, not "trough".
  • henchman 24
    Gregor, great site, have been reading it for a while.

    My question for you is what you think of Merrill Lynch's call the other day that oil will go down to $25 / barrel in 2009. It seems you would take the other side of that. If so, what do you think the floor in oil will be?

    To me, the Merrill call seems like an over-reaction. Perhaps the current price of oil will come down a bit further but with the velocity of the current supply destruction, I can't see it staying down there for long.

    thanks
  • rich t
    "They will just keep upping the ante until they get feedback. Which means that they are fated to go too far. "

    I could not agree more with these two sentences. This seems to be a minority viewpoint but I have no idea why that would be. Great stuff as usual Gregor.

    Rich
  • gregor.us
    Hi,

    Fresh IPM out from IEA Washington. non-OPEC slips below 40 Mb/day. And imo, it's just the beginning of the supply destruction.

    Table 1.1d

    G
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