Gregor.us

Love, it...well spoken. Rail is one important area China will continue to work on as it to grows its domestic economy. After traveling on Japan's high speed system, I am in love, although widespread bullet trains in China is not likely. We have also been looking for some good wind pure play stocks, found a couple but highly speculative.

Rail only works in densly populated areas. It's not cost effective versus airplanes or even cars if the trains are mostly empty. Electification of autos would be the smarter policy. Of course, we'll need lots of nuclear, hydro and coal burning plants. Try building one of those in America. California is on the verge of having a third world power supply because they've been building low output wind and solar instead of coal and nuclear. China's gets that it needs to grow, American are trying to conserve what they have.

If you want to let the government take your land and give you a pittance to build powerplants all over America, or take even more land for wind and solar (and let's not forget Americans are already suing over wind turbines saying they disturb their sleep, among other complaints); if you want to tell businesses such as Exelon, GE, Caterpillar, First Solar, Halliburton, Anadarko, James River, etc. that America is open for business, strip mine and pave and build everywhere to get our electric energy production up, then we'll "get it" the way China does.

We have a ton of densly populated areas in the US that continue to be barely served by rail, and that are still served by automobile infrastructure. One example is the entirety of Southern California from Santa Monica to San Diego, in a continuous strip 8-10 miles from the coast. I define these great swaths of urban-suburbia now as dense enough to qualify. Also, as I have written elsewhere, there's a whole uptake process in the West, which begins with vocal assertions that public rail can never work because the cities in the West were simply not laid out for public rail. That typically begins a 10 year process that goes from disbelief to very high rates of ridership. LA light rail is a great example.

You completely overstate the issues here by raising the strawman of China's rapacious land use policies (lack thereof) as the benchmark to how a greater investment in public rail would impact the US. My use of the Chinese example is much more narrow, and targeted. They are building lots of rail because investing in further automobile architecture is dumb.

And the US is not standing still on automobile architecture, it is not simply "conserving what they have." Automobile architecture here remains in gross excess and is a huge drag on our productivity, and we continue to invest in it.

G

We DO know but our politicians are mostly morons and self-dealing crooks, like President Empty Suit. The "Stimulus" Bill is proof of that.

I think what's clear, now that the US stimulus package is nearly done, is that China's package is more truly Keynesian and thus is far liklier to have a sustained impact on job creation--from a Keynesian perspective.

In fact, this may be a good econ experiment to compare the two as we go along.

G

To "Sam Frakus" and "Z":

I agree with your observation on the huge difference between the labor cost of the US and China. However, mass building of road and bridge, as the stimulus package calling for, are similar labor-intentisve endeavors. Therefore, I think that Gregor's focus is really on the choice among alternative transportation methods - when we still have a choice.

We have s social obstacle to overcome as well. In the US, ppl are psychologically attached to personal transportation. The interstates are still an amazing web of connectivity. New forms of vehicles, new uses for the interstates, would also be beneficial. For this, we need innovation. If Detroit could figure out, how to develop for new uses of the interstates, they/we would benefit. Looking at the landscape of China in your photo, I am reminded of the wilderness it presents.We, have less wilderness now. We have a different relation to rail. But that does not mean we should not develop more. Just musing. Amazing photo. Where did you get this?

I stole the photo. :-)

I live in China. to catch up with the united states,China has a long way to go in terms of transportation,education,and environmental protection.After all,China is a developing country with 1.4 billion people.

China is pragmatic and deals with concrete realities versus the democrats who deal in vaccuous rhetoric and idealistic fog.

its simple, corruption, as much as U.S. has this notion of moral superiority, the facts on the ground is that as much as we like to point at communists as being corrupt, all governance is in fact the same. Do not think having two parties makes things fair.

We are influenced to keep the car companies alive by conducting communist take overs and car czars? yet we tell others you are dictators and our economic system is pure and "free" for a few.

We care more about building fences. we care more about abortion policies. actually we just care about votes, just as any other form of governance likes votes, when the time in office is over, everyone wants to look good, ride trains around like FDR who would have ran until he could not.

chinesse people they don,t waste themoney a like we do no walfer no lobies no jews . you got it barak good luck my mam

While I agree with the writer's sentiment.. the fact is the US cant do big public works projects anymore
China is probably paying those workers about 25 cents an hour. We have to pay ours, after all insurances, benefits, paid breaks, vacations etc are added in closer to 25$ an hour (or more). This is a factor of 100 to 1. Infrastructure is extremely labor intensive. It just doesnt make sense to spend 10 billion to get 1/100 what china gets when they spend 10 billion.

It does anytime the end is worth the means. Be hopeful and of good cheer...when the problem really needs to be fixed, America will fix it, as usual and better. Don't be so doom and gloom. When there is a buyer for the service (ie, dare I say a 'market' for it?) then it will happen. I frankly can't imagine American public transit, ie AIR SERVICE or trains, looking like "The Golden Child' with chickens and goats on board public transportation anytime soon. you get dirty looks if you dare to have your own children with you....but that's another post :)

Your right but it would actually be closer to $50 per hour with all the benefits. Look at the auto industry between the corporate officers and the Union's they were bleed dry.

Z you are correct sir, I was being conservative with the estimates. The 25 cent figure is accurate.. I recall 500 rmb a month for uneducated, illiterate labor. that's about 80$ a month.. they work 12 hours a day 6 days a week. thats about 300 hours a month. Thats 27 cents an hour. There's no disability or anything like that. If they get seriously injured the govt gives them medical care but they dont get paid. If you cant work, you're fired, no fake neck braces, no epstein-barr syndrome, or attention deficit disorder disability.. u dont work, u dont get paid. They go back to the family farm and their family takes care of them.

Anyway this kind of simple labor america cant compete, period. Our era of building the hoover dam is long gone. We're not going to regain our footing paying 50$ an hour compared to 25 cents an hour and think that is a wise use of our resources. Those billions of dollars just wont produce what they produce in china not even close.

So this is all wishful thinking on the part of the writer.

But it will be more expensive for the US to try and run cities that are wed to the automobile when petrol is 12-15 dollars per gallon starting in 2012. My firm position is that just about any plan will be cheaper than a do nothing plan.

Because they don't have to contend with big money interests?

If the U.S. had the work ethics, perhaps we could do it, but when I look at Amtrak, it's condition, the rails, the clickity-click... not sure of much accomplishment. We traveled in Europe nearly 40 years ago; the rail system then from Zurich to Geneva was an amazing experience.

It is very sad to see, but this seems as its the beginning of the end for America as the supreme super power.
Time to learn Mandarin!

And I'm sure you think you are really cool with your detached 'ennui'. Why don't you solve the problem? America will continue to be the leader of the 'free world' the light for the un-free world past your grandchildren's life regardless of your attitude. Yankee 'can do' spirit will supass 'slave labor' every time. Get on board, or get out of the way!

You are incompetence . You will never get anywhere with that "you are the best attitude."

*Howcome we don’t get it? Howcome we don’t know?*

Less barriers to implementation?

I'd prefer to stay off track

That is such a great observation, Steven.